Embrace It with Lainie & Estela - Smashing Disability Stigmas

Embrace It: Episode 62 Jessica Jordan Ping - Own Your Authenticity

• Season 2 • Episode 62

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In this episode of Embrace It, Estela and Lainie welcome Jessica Jordan Ping, aka “The Rolling Explorer.” Jessica is a fierce advocate, adaptive fashion consultant, and creator who’s made it her mission to break down stereotypes about disability. Living with CHILD syndrome, a rare genetic condition affecting fewer than 60 people worldwide, Jessica brings a fresh perspective on what it means to truly “own it”—from the world of fashion to the challenges of travel, dating, and beyond.

With humor and raw honesty, Jessica shares why she decided to embrace her uniqueness and put herself out there on social media, how she tackles accessibility issues on her travels, and why it’s so important to cut through the pity and just live life on your own terms. From her adventures in adaptive rock climbing to her memorable White House appearance, Jessica proves that representation doesn’t have to fit a mold. Listen in for a conversation that’s both real and refreshing, and discover why Jessica’s motto of “owning it” is an invitation for everyone to live a little more authentically.

Hosted by Lainie Ishbia and Estela Lugo.

Embrace It is produced by Launchpad 516 Studios.

For sponsorships and media inquiries, drop an email to: embraceit@lp516.com

Subscribe to Embrace It with Lainie and Estela on Apple Podcasts and get notified of new episodes! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/embrace-it-with-lainie-estela-smashing-disability-stigmas/id1468364898

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Speaker 2:

Welcome to the Embrace it series, where women with all types of disabilities can be real, resourceful and stylish. With each episode, you'll walk or roll away with everyday tips, life hacks and success stories from community leaders and influencers. So take off your leg braces and stay a while with Lainey and Estella.

Speaker 1:

Hi, I'm Lainey and I have CMT, and I'm Estella and I also have CMT a neuromuscular disorder affecting approximately 2.6 million people worldwide.

Speaker 3:

That's as many as MS. We believe disabilities should never get in the way of looking or feeling good. Both of us wear leg braces and have learned through our own personal journeys to embrace it.

Speaker 1:

Brought to you by Launchpad 516 Studios. Each episode is designed to challenge your own stigmas and beliefs around disability. We want our listeners to get the most value for their time spent with us, so we interview some of the most empowering disability badasses in the world. Through storytelling, personal experiences and tips, we're all reminded of our own strengths and endless potential.

Speaker 3:

For more information and exclusive resources, check out our websites at trend-ablecom and hnf-cureorg, and don't forget to hit the subscribe button for future episodes and special promos.

Speaker 1:

Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the Embrace it podcast. So excited for our guest today. Hey Lainey, how are you?

Speaker 3:

Hi, Estella, we're recording this everyone. I don't know when this is going to come out, but I just saw your Halloween costume last night, Estella. You nailed it. You went as Forest Gump and and.

Speaker 1:

Jenna.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it was a great costume, so happy Halloween, or belated. Halloween people. Happy Halloween or belated Halloween people.

Speaker 1:

Yes, it's my favorite holiday. I love to just, you know, not take myself so seriously and it's creative. You can make costumes, dress up, be silly, act like a child, which are, you know, right up my alley, and you and Howard were elf right, you were elf and I forgot her name, but that's who I was from the Will Ferrell movie.

Speaker 3:

Because my husband, although we're Jewish, is super into Christmas and Halloween. But I have to say that you know what and we're going to get to our amazing guest. But I was really proud of myself. Halloween. What I like about it, or what I used to like about it as a younger person, is you got to be like super sexy, like almost like a stripper, and it didn't matter because it was Halloween and this was the first year. I was like all covered up. I was in my little elf costume and a couple of my girlfriends are like you look so sexy. I'm like that goes to show you the more you cover up, you know, the more More.

Speaker 1:

Anyways, yeah, more to the imagination. I felt a little dowdy, but yeah, you looked great.

Speaker 1:

And speaking of fashion, we have our guest today who's definitely knows a thing or two about fashion. Her name is Jessica Jordan Ping, aka. She calls herself the Rolling Explorer. Oops, there is my New York coming out. She calls herself the Rolling Explorer. Oops, there's my New York coming out. She calls herself the Rolling Explorer. She is a creator, a speaker, writer, model actor, adaptive fashion consultant, disability advocate so much more. She was born with child syndrome, which is actually a very rare genetic disorder affecting only 60 people worldwide, but Jessica has really turned her experience into an incredible platform for change and representation. So welcome, Jessica Hi.

Speaker 3:

Jessica.

Speaker 5:

Hi, thank you so much for having me. Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 3:

It's better to have you. Before we went live here, I was saying you know, like Estelle, and I joke every time oh, we have all these people and everyone's inspiring and everyone is like super interesting, all these different disability advocates. But Jessica, I could not stop watching your reel. It's like a teenager. I was like how does she do that? And they're so upbeat and you're, I mean, we're going to get to all of that with what you do and your brand and your social media content, which is amazing. But before we go there, um, estella mentioned you have we're born with child syndrome, a very rare condition. Can you like give us a? You know the one-on-one of Jessica.

Speaker 5:

Sure. So I was born with child syndrome, which affects about 60 people worldwide with skin and limb deficiencies, so for me that's actually a fairly mild case, believe it or not, as I'm missing a. I have a shortened left arm and then a shortened leg as well on the left side, but it was further amputated after birth, so I was able to use a prosthetic instead of just relying on a wheelchair all the time, which has been really, really great. But yeah, I use various different mobility aids to get around and hop around on one foot and have a heck of a time doing all of it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, tell us a little bit about you know, just growing up with this type of disability. Obviously it's so rare. What was your upbringing and family-like life? You know? Socially, how did you become this self-confident you know badass woman just advocating out there in the world. How did that all come about?

Speaker 5:

You know, it definitely didn't come about easily and it didn't come about until really the last five to six years, I would say, is when I started to gain any sort of confidence around my disability and being able to speak about it and advocate around it. Growing up, when I was a young child, I didn't see any difference between me and my peers. I was just like I'm just a kid, I just want to have fun, I just want to be accepted, I want to run around and be silly and get into trouble and all the things. But then as I got older and kids started treating me differently, I think that was when it was like oh wait, I have to now navigate how to integrate myself into a social situations. And then I became more aware of inaccessibility, and so each time that I would face up against these different barriers it would knock my confidence.

Speaker 5:

And I think by the time I got to college in particular, my confidence was rock bottom. I didn't really have a lot of value in myself and I didn't really see how I was ever going to be accepted. I just kind of was accepting the idea that this was how my life was going to go. So it was a tough time, but I eventually sought out therapy, started following other disabled creators online and learning about the community, learning that I wasn't alone. I may be one of 60 with my actual disease, but there are so many people in the disability community who are standing up and speaking out for disability rights, and following their journeys and hearing their stories really made me realize that hey, no, you matter, you can take up space and it's okay.

Speaker 3:

Jessica, like, as I said, I mean I'm sounding like a broken record. I'm just blown away by you in general and your energy and it's like so contagious general and your energy and it's like so contagious One of the store when you're talking about you know how you have struggled as a, you know, young adult child. I, I was like taken by something that I heard you talking about with, like without your prosthetic, I guess you might not have had a prosthetic, or maybe you had one, but that you were hopping around like a, like a prom, like just like, like putting yourself in dangerous situations that were not good for you just to be and I'm using air quotes people like normal right. And so many of us can relate to that, regardless if we're, you know, people with, you know, missing limbs, or if we're people with short-term retooth disorder, the desire to just kind of blend in.

Speaker 3:

And now, jessica, you're doing like a 360. You're definitely not blending in, right, you're doing anything, but You're busting every myth about disability. So obviously you'd hear a lot of, I'm assuming, dumb stuff every day from people. I mean, if Stella and I hear what's wrong with your foot for limping, I would imagine that you've heard a lot. So what is some ridiculous assumption that stood out to you?

Speaker 5:

I get in my comment section a lot that I'm faking my disability and that I'm using CGI to get views and to be famous. Essentially, wow, wow. What is what is CGI? It's like what um movie people use.

Speaker 1:

Oh like.

Speaker 3:

AI, oh wow. Yeah. Yeah that you're faking. Having like a limb difference? Yeah, wow.

Speaker 5:

I think that's the most wild, because I don't know who thinks I have that type of money or time.

Speaker 1:

You got some serious like editing skills going on over there in the background. Really need to change my resume. I don't know what about like on an everyday basis Cause, like Lainey said said, you know all those interactions with strangers and people that you meet while you're, whether you're filming a content when you're out advocating and doing all of these events. What are some of the things that you're hearing and what are those kind of conversations out in the quote unquote real world? Do people approach you? What does that look like you? You know the majority of time. What has been your way of helping people? Maybe bring awareness about disability and all of that?

Speaker 5:

I would say nine times out of 10,. If I'm getting approached, it's usually along the lines of like oh, I'm so impressed by you, oh, you're such an inspiration, oh, I'll pray for you. That sort of mentality where it's just like they. I think they think they're doing it with good intention. Right, that's the idea, and one thing that I really try to do in my advocacy is meet people where they are a little bit and not fault them for ignorance and not knowing.

Speaker 5:

And ignorance is not even meant to be like a rude or mean term here. It's just plain and simple they don't have the knowledge or the the, the awareness yet. And so if they say that, um, sometimes if it depends on how in a hurry I am I might just nod and be like thank you, and move on about my day. But if I have a minute to give to it, I'll just be like oh, like, not really, but like thank you, and here's why but most of the time it's probably just a thank you and move on about my day. And then I bring it to the internet and I'm like here's why we don't just say that disabled people are inspirational for trying to grab cheese off the top shelf at the grocery store.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, that's, that's one of those like you're one of your posts I mean, you guys who are listening, you've got to check out and we're obviously going to put this all in the show notes some of your social media content and, um, because, like one of them was, you're just so direct. You're like, do not feel sorry for me. I think you have a background of like a song that has the word pity in it, like I don't, I don't know, you know I'm, I don't even know what song it is, probably like Taylor Swift, which I'm going to this week. I have no idea what she sings, but I don't know. You have, like this major song in the background and you're like, do not pity me, people with disabilities do not need to be pitied blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and it's so direct and it's so strong and it's so like amazing that you, you know, describe yourself as being so insecure and so, um, you know, having so many challenges that you were that you've evolved into this, this young woman, this person who is able to be like in your face, like, but in a non-threatening, cool way, you know, which I love about you.

Speaker 3:

So, jessica, moving forward, you started your blog, we're moving backwards. I guess I'm just so excited. I'm all over as the place, as normal, but you started your blog, okay. Oh wait, it's called the Rolling Explorer during COVID, is that right?

Speaker 5:

Technically I started it the year prior, but I didn't put a lot of effort into it until COVID. That's correct.

Speaker 3:

Okay, and that's where everything started. So can you tell us how that happened? What was your goal in starting the Rolling Explorer? What do you do with that part of your social media content now? Because it's very different. You're so many things. You're a travel blogger, but then you're also a model. You're also a disability, like an adaptive fashion designer. You were at the White House. I mean, we have a lot to cover, jessica.

Speaker 5:

Listen, I have the privilege of just getting to live my life as my career right now, which is kind of wild in and of itself, so I feel very blessed for that. But I think when I started the blog I had no intention with it. Really, I always say that it was something that a mentor of mine in my first job out of college was telling me how to become a storyteller. I've always wanted to be a writer. I always wanted to tell other people's stories. And he said that you know, it's a really intense industry and in order to stand out you're going to have to tell stories every day. And you might as well start with your own through a blog. And I didn't really think much of it at the time, but I did go home immediately that night. I set up a website and I was like all right, well, I have the thing, I'll do the thing when I want to do the thing. And I just kind of took it really slow for that first year, I would say.

Speaker 5:

And then, like I said, during the pandemic, I had all this time on my hands and I was unemployed. I was looking to move to London. I couldn't get over there because of visas and the pandemic and everything that was going on in the world, and so I started writing all the time and I started posting on social media. That was when TikTok was blowing up. I didn't get on TikTok during that big boom. I only was focused on Instagram at the time because TikTok was scary. Wish I had missed opportunities. But at the same time, you know, I was lucky enough that my stuff did take off on Instagram and I kind of really leaned into that and now it is what it is and I never I've never at any point in time been like yes, this is where I think it's going. I could not have put on my bingo card that certain thing. Like you mentioned the White House. That wasn't on my brain four years ago, that's for sure.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean, it's pretty wild when you think about and this is something that Lainey and I we talk about a lot is that it's the story, it's the power of storytelling and the power of sharing your story and being vulnerable to the world is what lights you up and what draws attention and makes you magnetic and has all of the right people, you know, uh, gravitating towards you and all of the empowerment that comes on the other side of the screen that you're probably not aware of on an everyday basis. The impact that you're having on the next generation of people living with disabilities and I know travel is a big part of that. What have you, what are some of the takeaways from your travels as somebody with a disability?

Speaker 5:

Yeah, you know, travel has been an interesting space for me. That's actually where the Rolling Explorer came from. I wanted it to be a travel blog because I feel like that industry in particular is so not catering to the disability community right now still four years later and you know, a lot of it has to do with lack of education and lack of just directness. I feel like in communication around accessibility too, I always say that if a hotel is not accessible, I'd rather them put it very clearly on their website. I'm going to judge them a lot less if they're not accessible and they put it on their website than if I book the hotel and I stay there and then I can't access my room very easily. That's going to be annoying.

Speaker 5:

But all of this is to say, you know, as an amputee, I only started traveling with my prosthetic leg For the first time a couple of years ago. Technically, when I studied abroad in college, I did bring my prosthetic, but I wore it one day. I was there for like four, five months and I wore it one time. I was there, so traveled all the way to England for that.

Speaker 3:

So can I stop you Like? Why is that Just I mean why?

Speaker 5:

A big part of it is because I wasn't wearing my prosthetic very frequently. So I, when I was 10, took my prosthetic 12. When I was 12, I took my prosthetic off and didn't really put it back on again until college. Wow, I have a skin condition that comes along with the child syndrome. That makes wearing prosthetics incredibly painful, even to this day. I can tolerate it a bit more now, but as a kid I was done. I can tolerate it a bit more now, but as a kid I was done.

Speaker 5:

I was in so much pain all the time so I had to take it off. And then in college I only really wore it to work out. I didn't wear it around to classes. I relied on my electric wheelchair pretty much the entire time, and so when I've been traveling, I've usually used a manual wheelchair and would rely on people that I was traveling with to help me get around. And now, as a single adult, it has become more clear that I need some level of independence, and I crave that level of independence. And I can get that with my electric wheelchair still, and I have traveled with it in the past but it is far more. My prosthetic gives me far more independence, and so I have leaned into traveling with that a lot more as of late.

Speaker 1:

As far as like other countries go, what has been some of your insights? As far as traveling with a disability, are there any countries that you were very impressed with their level of accessibility versus others, and how did that kind of reshape your views of the US and accessibility here?

Speaker 5:

You know it's funny, I would say I used to complain when I lived in England all the time how inaccessible London is, and it is a pretty inaccessible place, but compared to every other country and like city around the world that I've been to, it's pretty accessible at the same time. Uh, the tube and the bus system aren't perfect by any means, but they exist and most uh enough places are accessible that you can get around a decent a bit and I think, because it's also a walking city, that helped a lot in terms of using, like a wheelchair around the area. But one city I want to call out, it's not a global, it's not an international city New York City. I've been there twice now in the last month and it is bad, it's very bad. I'm not a fan of the accessibility in New York at all.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, I don't blame you. I literally have PTSD from the subway system when I went to college at FIT and was commuting a few years after that. It's very. You know, we have a lot of work to do and you know, I think that's part of the value that you bring as well to social media is to show where there needs to be work, whether they're restaurants or venues, what that looks like and how we can do better. Yeah, I mean, do you have any particular stories about, maybe, a situation where you were in a, you know, in a rut, traveling, and you had to kind of either advocate for yourself or rely on others to help you?

Speaker 5:

Yeah, so when I was traveling with my choir in college, we did a whole big trip to I think it was Spain. We did like a big tour of different cities in Spain, took a bus around and we flew from Barcelona to Madrid on our final day to eventually fly from Madrid back home. As we were disembarking the plane, I had the accessibility team at the airport come up to me and be like hey, we're here to help you get to your next gate, so your party doesn't have to wheel you through the airport. This is a common practice. This is something that I rely on very heavily while traveling. So I didn't think anything of it and I was just like all right, it's been a long trip, my friends don't have to help me here, I'll let the airport staff guide.

Speaker 5:

But it ended up being the case. I almost missed the next flight because there was a language barrier there. I only speak a very little Spanish and they were keeping me in this one area and they weren't taking me to my flight. My choir director ended up having to come to the space that I was at and be like hey, she has to come with me, the flight is boarded. It's not boarding. It has boarded. It is done. We need to like get her on this flight. Uh, and I'm really grateful that him and um the tour director both came and did that, but it was scary. There for a minute I was what? 21 at the time. I was young, I didn't know what I was doing, I was scared and just sat there, yeah exactly, and I felt very like helpless.

Speaker 5:

I felt like I, I, what am I supposed to do? I didn't have my prosthetic, like I said, so I'm in this manual wheelchair sitting in this airport that I don't know where I am. I don't speak the language, and it was. It was scary.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, I was going to kind of segue into, obviously, the air. You know air travel is a huge issue right now for people with disabilities and as someone who has been a policy kind of advocate as well, and recently at the White House, can you share a little bit about what is in store and what we are doing to kind of address these issues with air travel?

Speaker 5:

disability. I will just say the White House was more of a celebration rather than a policy meeting of any sort.

Speaker 3:

She was a guest Estella. She was a guest. I saw her outfit. I mean I, oh yeah, I did. I mean it was, she looked beautiful. Yes, I mean not as good as your London Fashion Week outfit, but it was pretty good.

Speaker 5:

Thank you, thank you.

Speaker 3:

I agree.

Speaker 5:

I could have used a little elevation, but the reason I say that is I don't think I've been necessarily at the forefront of the air travel policy change. However, I did just see an article about American Airlines having to pay some ridiculous 50 million. I was going to say I couldn't remember if it was 30 or 50, but $50 million to about yeah, they're fined.

Speaker 1:

I don't know where the money goes, which is actually a good question. My boyfriend was like, well, where does that money go? I was like, hopefully it's first policy change and training, but yeah well, I.

Speaker 5:

So I think I read that some of it's going to the people who were affected by the damages caused to pay for wheelchairs or hospital bills or whatever it was that needs that repayment. But I think the I think it was 25 mil was going to that and then 25 million was going into back into the company actually to do training, to do to, to build out better infrastructure, to make sure that, hey, we're going to fix the issue, it's not just going to continue to happen. We'll be right back.

Speaker 4:

This is John and Mark Cronin from.

Speaker 5:

John's Crazy.

Speaker 4:

Socks and we're interrupting to say we hope you're enjoying this episode, but please make sure to check out our show, the Spreading Happiness Podcast, another great show produced by Launchpad 516 Studios. New episodes are available every week on all your favorite podcast platforms. Join us on our new podcast as we continue our mission spreading happiness.

Speaker 5:

Thank you, folks.

Speaker 1:

You're tuning in to Embrace it with Lainey Anastellaella, brought to you by Launchpad 516 Studios.

Speaker 3:

So, jessica, in terms of travel and whatnot, whether it's just to the airport or beyond and all the cities you've been in, and I'm actually going to London soon, so I'd like your little 411 info. But in general, what would you say? Like, what do you say to your followers who must like mine and Estella is right to you and say you know, I've never traveled before, I'm nervous, I don't know what I'm going to do, like when everyone wants to go here and I haven't. I've been scared because of my disability. What do you tell people who haven't traveled?

Speaker 5:

when it comes to disability and travel, you know it's unfortunate, because the reality is that traveling as a disabled person just really requires extra planning on your part and there's so much burden that falls onto the disabled person's shoulders. And so I think you know one of my favorite quotes from my favorite music artist, taylor Swift, is if you fail to plan, you plan to fail. And I think that same mindset. I use it across everything, but definitely in travel. If you don't do the research, if you don't call ahead, if you don't look at what you want to do, then it does fall back on you. And to an extent I'm not and that's not me blaming the disabled person for inaccessibility. That's not the case. It's more just like okay, you deserve to travel, you should travel. But if you're going to do it, you do need to step up and sort of be like hey, this is what's going to work for me and advocate for yourself. If you're traveling with other people, be sure to let them know like, hey, I can do this and this, but maybe not this. If you're going to do this, can you do it at this time so I can do this instead? And like coordinate with people, be willing to compromise, understand that there is going to be difficulty and also give yourself time and grace as well. I think both of those things are important.

Speaker 5:

If you have feelings like, let yourself feel them, like it's frustrating, we're allowed to be upset. It's 2024. What do you mean? What do you mean? That there's not a lift? Like the elevator has been around since the 1800s and yet places don't have elevators? That's ridiculous. There's no excuse. But at the same time, understand there, especially if you're going somewhere historic, there's going to be barriers, there's going to be extra barriers. That point and just prepare yourself to have those feelings. But maybe bring a journal brain, make sure you have a playlist ready to feel your feelings and just be ready to be a little bit put off and put behind in some capacity to, like I said, give yourself time. Don't rush around, because there is no rushing at this point. Like if there's barriers, you're going to have to figure out how to cross them and that takes extra time.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you sound like you have a really strong support system as well. I know you know traveling alone is exhausting and it's not something that I opt for either and I have. I'm fortunate enough to have a support system as well family, friends, boyfriend, all of that. Tell me, or tell us, a little bit about your personal support system. I know you know your friends and your family, and even a little bit about dating. What has that been like for you? And that social aspect of living with a disability?

Speaker 5:

Yeah, I'm very, very lucky that I have a very, very strong family support system. My parents have been next level at every stage of my life and I have been so grateful for them. I've been through a lot of change in the last year moving countries, going through a divorce and at the core of it all, they have been there. They flew to London to help me move. They let me live at home for six months, they helped me move into my new place in Chicago and, as different things have been going down like, they've been right there by my side every step of the way, both good and bad. They came with me to a presentation I gave the other day and they were there all day. They didn't have to do that, but they're just such loving people and I am so grateful to have that support network and have had that support network and I give a huge credit to them for me being the person I am today and they deserve all the credit in the world for that.

Speaker 3:

I also feel like I have a very Like a parent's dream right. Like, honestly, I I mean, really all you need to do is like cut and paste this little portion of this podcast and say happy, merry Christmas, happy mother's day like doesn't that be enough? I'd be like that is literally. You know, when you raise kids to be good humans and adults, like what you just said is what every parent dreams of. You know. When you raise kids to be good humans and adults, like what you just said is what every parent dreams of. You know, because I mean truly so lucky them and good for them. You know, they also obviously raised a fantastic person, um as well.

Speaker 5:

To be able to say that about your parents, it's pretty cool I feel very privileged because I know that's not an experience that everybody can share and I truly am so grateful to them. Nothing that I have or have done would be possible without them. So I'm glad that you see the beauty in that, because I do think that there's something really special in our relationship. But I also have been very, very lucky to have a strong, solid group of friends. I think I mentioned the fact that I've gone through a divorce in the last year, so a part of my support system kind of crumbled around me within that not just my ex-partner but also my friends in London and the family that I had sort of built out there. And suddenly I had to move back to Chicago and had to learn how to let new people in again and how I start trusting people and how I become vulnerable with new people again. And I've been very lucky to meet a really solid group of people here in Chicago that I'm very grateful to have. They've been very supportive of me as I've been going through the divorce. They've been very supportive of me as I've been going through the divorce. They've been very supportive of me as I've been picking up the pieces of my business that I started in the UK and now I'm here and it's. They've been so great and so understanding and I'm grateful for that as well.

Speaker 5:

And I know you asked about dating. Dating has been an interesting transition for me, I would say, not just as a disabled person, but also somebody post-divorce like learning how to navigate those waters. As somebody who's also very young, I think has been very interesting. I'm only 27. I'm like still in my twenties and figuring all of this out has not been easy. But I also never had a dating really experience. I met my ex when I was 20. So I missed out on all those early years dating experiences post-college, and so it's been really fun, especially having moved to a new city, getting to see it through, going on dates and meeting new people. At the end of the day, that's kind of what I always like lean into when I'm dating is hey, it's not like a waste of time, it's not a bad experience. If I've gotten to explore Chicago, then hey, at least I'm having fun.

Speaker 3:

I don't mean to cut you off, but I do because okay. So I I'm not dating. I'm 54, but I have stepdaughters who are your age and my own children are pretty close. It's hard. I'm in Michigan, I know my son is moving to Chicago next year. In general, without a disability, it's hard to meet people, and especially for women, like there's just so many women looking for a relationship and like you obviously have extra. You're extra right and like all of us are extra, but you're extra extra. Like how does that work for you? Are you on sites? Do you post with prosthetic legs? Like how do you navigate that?

Speaker 5:

I have been on sites in the past. I'm not currently on them right now. I will say that the dating apps I've not that's where I would say I get most of my dates from are dating apps. Definitely less so from happenstance meetings out in person, but I have met a few people that way too. It's interesting. In navigating all of it, there's a lot of mess involved.

Speaker 5:

I feel like it is hard out here and the reality is, I agree, there are a lot of women looking for relationships and I don't know if the same amount of men are looking for relationships right now. Not to stereotype, like the genders and any sort of capacity, but I do think that that tends to be the difference and it's been interesting. And also, I think, for the last year, like I'll be honest, for a good while I wasn't looking for a relationship either, but I was going on dates. So that's just the way it was and it wasn't that I would be opposed if the right thing had come along, I think. But I wasn't actively like yes, this has to end in marriage, like that was not my goal with dating. My goal with dating was to dip my toe back into the waters and be like all right. Well, we'll see what happens here.

Speaker 3:

And how do you like when we've covered dating in the past, you know, a lot of times people are afraid, you know, after divorce whether it's you know or never been married to put themselves out there because they're worried about their disability being the reason someone's not interested in them. I mean, are you just I mean on those sites, for example, obviously in person someone's seeing you, right, but like on those sites, are you like leading with your disability? Is it something that you bring up, like how is that? How do you navigate that and how do you not follow up? Aren't there like men that have like this fetish thing with, like, like how do you avoid that? She's laughing you guys? I didn't offend, but I think that's a thing, right? Or am I like watch too many shows?

Speaker 1:

There's a fetish for everything I mean. I understand, but I really think that's a thing right? Or am I like watching too many shows? There's a fetish for everything I mean.

Speaker 3:

I understand, but I really think that's a thing thing.

Speaker 5:

There's an amputee fetish, specifically, that's what. I meant For sure, so there's a lot to unpack in this entire question. You know how do I want to say this. First of all, let's unpack the fetish thing, yeah let's get that out.

Speaker 5:

I feel like, unless people are just not being honest with me, I've not encountered any of those people and any of the people that I've met on dating apps. I'm also quite picky. I think post-divorce that's something that I have figured out is I don't want to waste my time with even going on like one or two dates with somebody that I don't find attractive or I don't think we'd get along because of X, y and Z. Like I'm not swiping right on every single person that comes across my feed, like I'm doing it intentionally. Even when I didn't necessarily want a relationship, I was still swiping intentionally, and so I think that's an important thing to say.

Speaker 5:

I think, when it comes to the aspect of rejection due to one's disability, sometimes I think the apps make it easier because I am very transparent about my disability online. I mean mine's very visible, so that helps. If you have a hidden disability, I can see why this would be a more complicated situation, but there really is no hiding my disability. At the very least like I can't really hide my arm at all unless I hold it behind me and I wear pants with my prosthetic you're going to be able to tell like something is different, and I try to always have a bit of humor on my profile about disability in some capacity as well, but I would say that because of that, it sort of acts as more of a barrier, a screening tool. A screening tool that's a great way to put it. A screening tool, people, that I'm thinking of one app in particular where people like you and then you can either choose to match or not. And I like that app a lot because I do think that it is a screening tool on there, because it's less of an algorithm where you're swiping swiping like a game, it's more intentional anyway and then you see that this person has liked you. Well, chances are, they at least paid attention enough to know that you have a disability.

Speaker 5:

And in my experience, that has not been an issue for me since moving to Chicago. And in my experience, that has not been an issue for me since moving to Chicago. I mean, there's been people that have asked me more questions than others and clearly felt more comfortable around it than others, but I also think that, generally speaking, nobody has been only one person has made any sort of song and dance about it, and even that was something tolerable. It wasn't anything, it was more that they just had never really encountered disability, especially in dating before. And then they were just like, okay, so what do I do about this? What do I do about that? And it was a lot for me in the time and I we didn't see each other after that date, but a little on the logical side right, Like a planner kind of.

Speaker 3:

Kind of and it was just or just not wanting to offend. I mean that's like truthfully. I mean some people, you know, I mean that's what this society now is the opposite for a lot of people. Some people are just super offensive and then other people are so nervous to say the wrong thing or do the wrong thing that it makes the whole. You don't even know if you have chemistry, I would imagine, because they're so caught up in not offending you and it's like you know.

Speaker 3:

I think really, jessica, like you're so clearly comfortable with who you are and I love to hear, uh, like anyone, but especially a young woman, say you know, I am picky, like I'm not just going to settle because I have extra. I use the word extra, we're all I mean. I'm extra, extra in a lot of ways too, but not, you know, you might not see it right. Oh, we see it. Fine, I know you can see it. Poor Estella, I love you can see it.

Speaker 1:

I'm like poor Estella I love you.

Speaker 3:

The point is that you know you want someone who wants to get to know you, right? But this world is based on appearances a lot of it, and we can't like change that. So some people are going to just not be interested in you. They're not going to be interested in me because I have dark hair. They're not going to be interested in Estella because she was wearing pink lipstick. I mean, people are just people, and so what Estella and I do when we talk about dating is like getting people to really see that there could be a million and one reasons why someone doesn't connect with you. And you know they may have to do with your disability or they may not, but like, that's on them, that's on them, that's just. It's just, it's just you'll find the right person when the right person and you connect. So I love that.

Speaker 3:

But I want to switch. We've done, jessica. You're so interesting and there's so much to you and we can't like keep you here forever, although we would like to. But I want to quickly touch on fitness, because I mean to be able to hop around with like one leg and to be a rock climber, which I don't even understand, because doesn't that require? I don't know, does that that doesn't require two arms, like I don't know? But so can you talk about that, because I'm just I'm amazed by that. I also am a big proponent for people who have shark, memory tooth or any neuromuscular condition that doesn't have a cure, of being able to compensate for your weaknesses with your core and with other things, and obviously you must do that, yeah.

Speaker 5:

Fitness is kind of newer for me too. I actually well, yes and no Both of my parents were in sports growing up. Let me start by saying that my dad was a PE teacher, and so physical activity was something that just like was expected in some capacity for me. I think Not that they expected me necessarily with the disability to get out there, but I think it was in my genetics, like I want to do something and I always liked performing. I think I as much as I can thank my parents for making me who I am.

Speaker 5:

My desire to be an entertainer is also a big reason I am who I am today, and so I did a lot of musical theater growing up, and I also did a lot of dance. So I trained 13 years as a kid in dance studios in my hometown and that was my physical fitness, that was what I liked to do for fun, and for some of that I wore my prosthetic and then when I took the prosthetic off, I hopped around to dance and I learned how to do it on one foot. And you know, growing up then in college and in like post-college time, I realized as well that, okay, fitness helps me feel better, it helps me feel more confident too, like maintain a figure that makes me happy. It helps me boost my endorphins, which helps with my mental health, and so leaning into going to the gym and all of these things has been really interesting. But you know, I'm from a small town in the middle of nowhere, illinois. I didn't realize that adaptive fitness was a thing. I know the Paralympics are huge and have been huge forever. I didn't even know that was a thing. I know the Paralympics are huge and have been huge forever. I didn't even know that was a thing until truly like four years ago. I think that's kind of sad, honestly, that something so global was something that didn't reach my corner of the world until I was 22, 23 years old, and so for me, I didn't really realize how much I could have done and, like, looking back, if I had known that, it makes me wonder like what I've been even more into fitness. But I think since learning that, I've been really interested in like challenging myself and pushing myself, and that's how I got involved with rock climbing.

Speaker 5:

When I moved to Chicago I was like I need something, I need a hobby that gets me out of my apartment. I work from home. I need something to do something. And so somebody I was dating at the time was really into rock climbing, and so I just looked it up. I was like adaptive rock climbing, maybe that's a thing, and it was. And so I started going to this gym. I started learning the ropes. Fun little pun there.

Speaker 5:

And technically, it does help to have all your limbs. I will say it would probably be easier, but I'm lucky because I can use my shortened arm to help pull me up a little bit and my residual limb, like I can put it, on certain footholds. I'm not going to be climbing like the most difficult rock walls Like I'm doing, like the lower level ones that have more footholds, that have more handholds, but it's still fun for me, it's still a challenge and I think that's why I like that sport in particular, because it's both a physical and mental challenge at the same time. So it just keeps me really engaged while I'm doing it, and it's individual as well. It's not something that I have to rely on anybody else?

Speaker 3:

Yes, and you could probably meet a lot of guys, I would imagine. Listen, I keep telling my stepdaughters they need to have more hobbies that are like, not like makeup and, by the way I speak, like plenty of men wear makeup. I mean, this is not a gender, we're not doing gender thing here. I'm just saying, like golf, good hobby, like these are hobbies.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, just something that other people do, that are mixed mixed around and I love that you found something that challenges you and I think that's good for anyone. You know, if we can combine the physical challenge with the mental challenge and the emotional challenge, it all kind of reflects back into our lives and in other unexpected ways and I feel like, yes, we can talk to you all day, jessica, and we want everyone listening to follow your content to really see some of the amazing things that Jessica is doing that we haven't even discussed today. But we like to end our podcasts with the question of what does embrace it mean to you?

Speaker 5:

Yeah. So to me, embrace it just means like living in your authenticity and really just owning who you are, every facet of who that is, and not being not having weird guilt or shame or any sort of negativity around who you are, falling in love with yourself. I think embrace it is just another form of self-love.

Speaker 1:

I love that, yay. Well, thank you, jessica. Yay is right. Jessica, you are so cool.

Speaker 3:

I want to grow up and be you. I mean seriously at least. I want to learn how to make reels like you do. You're really good at it.

Speaker 3:

She's inspiring and I mean, honestly, she was on Facebook, recognized you. I'm ending, I'm going to end, but I'm just saying, like you were invited or like 10 people were invited creators, and you were one of them to Meta slash Facebook. You're doing so great and can't wait to see where, where you go next. I'm a follower now Friendable is following you, jessica and um, it was so cool to get to know you and um, you know we, we. I use the word inspiring very, very purposely, consciously, yeah, and, and you really are for me, inspiring, um, because of the person you are. It's really cool.

Speaker 5:

So anyways, where can people find you? Yeah, uh, thank you so much for all the kind words. First of all, I also just want to say that, lainey, estella, it's been so lovely chatting with you, but, um, you can find me at the rolling explorer on all the main social media platforms. Uh, I try to show up every day. Thank you so much for for all of it, guys. This has been great.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely so much fun. Thank you so much and um, everyone, check out Jessica and we'll see you next time. Bye everyone. Hey, embracers, thank you so much for listening and supporting the Embrace it podcast Brought to you by Launchpad 516 Studios Executive, produced by George Andriopoulos and hosted by Laini Ishbia and Estella Lugo. Our music and sound effects are licensed through Epidemic Sound Embrace.

Speaker 3:

It is hosted with Buzzsprout Do you have a disability related topic you'd love for us to feature, or could someone you know be a fabulous guest on our show? We would love to hear your comments and feature them on our next podcast. So leave us a voicemail or you can even send us a text to 631-517-0066.

Speaker 1:

Make sure to subscribe to this feed wherever podcasts are available and leave us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts while you're at it. Follow us at embraceit underscore podcast on Instagram and make sure to follow all the great podcasts produced by Launchpad 516 Studios.

Speaker 3:

We hope you join us next time and continue to embrace it.